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Interested in hang gliding? Currently learning to hang glide? Post your questions here.
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User avatar
By psuguru
#293427
i saw my first Bautek glider the other day.
A brand new Bautek Kite.
It is a very interesting design, kingpost but with internal sprogs. It's very light in comparison to, say, the Rio2. The owner said it towed nicely.

I thought it was beautiful, and want one.








By jamesbrow
#293694
great advise everyone, thanks
User avatar
By over50
#294719
back again...

at my seventh height flight when landing broke my right elbow, hospital ...

next year will show, whether to try again - metal out, no immobility left in the elbow ... ? - or to give up, i will have to wait.

johannes
User avatar
By fkovacs
#294724
Johannes,
Please tell us what happened ? Others might have a chance to learn from the eventual mistakes.

Wishing you speedy recovery.
User avatar
By Nigel Hewitt
#294725
psuguru wrote:This thread's about buying a first glider that you would want to keep.
Aeros Target? Oh please.
I've still got mine. It has it's place. Well... I think my son is about to adopt it.

On a 'Target' day you probably end up at the bottom of the hill but you don't end up in a pile of Ali scrap and if I did it was cheap and I've already had my money's worth out of it...
But I do agree about the short-short pack. Great for travelling, a glider that fits IN the car on the chunnel!! but you'd loose the will to live if you had to do that too often.
psuguru wrote: I will be 60 in 2 months time and I started hang gliding (again) when I was 57.
raise you to 63 in two months. :)

Admittedly climbing hills at 62 is getting a bit tiresome but it's "Use it or loose it" and I'm not ready to loose it yet.
Can I say to our 50+ fellow that age ain't a problem. Yes, it must be nice to be strong and fit but a HG rewards precision and brain power not muscle. Once you are reacting to what is going to happen not what has just happened it works. Good luck with the recovery.
User avatar
By Dontsink
#294730
over50 wrote:back again...

at my seventh height flight when landing broke my right elbow, hospital ...

next year will show, whether to try again - metal out, no immobility left in the elbow ... ? - or to give up, i will have to wait.

johannes
Really sorry that you got hurt.I finished my altitude flights last week,so far so good(fingers crossed!).
I found the HG course quite demanding mentally and phisically.And i'm "only" forty years old...you are strong!.
The good part is that i thing you have done the hardest(initial) bit.Just bad luck that you injured yourself.
BTW i got the Perfex and i'm really happy with it,i posted a video and many pics here. http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27100
Wish you a good recovery!.
User avatar
By red
#294738
over50 wrote:back again...
at my seventh height flight when landing broke my right elbow, hospital ...
next year will show, whether to try again - metal out, no immobility left in the elbow ... ? - or to give up, i will have to wait.
johannes
Johannes,

That is bad news, everybody here wants to see new HG pilots succeed. Give the injury the time and attention that it needs. As with any such injuries, a warm-water pool is a great help in regaining strength and mobility at the site of the injury. I'm over 60, and I'd count myself as lucky to avoid injury for the next twenty years. Yes, we would like to hear what happened, and maybe to identify causes of the mishap, which may be helpful to others.

There is still no need to give up the dream to fly, for yourself. If hang gliding is really not an option in the future, there are options almost as good. I suggest looking into Mike Sandlin's gliders, called AirChairs (flying lawn-chairs 8) ) These gliders resemble the pioneering Primary Gliders of a bygone age, but with modern knowledge. They can be built with hand tools, in a one-car garage, and for about the same money as a new hang glider. They travel to flying sites on the same vehicle racks that any hang glider pilot would have. Complete plans are free, and downloadable from the Technical Drawings page. Yahoo hosts the AirChair discussion group.

http://m-sandlin.info/
http://m-sandlin.info/technicaldrawings/td.htm
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Airchairgroup/

:mrgreen:
User avatar
By over50
#294813
thank you for all this empathy from your side.

what happend? i don't know exactly up to now - late oktober, when i am again allowed to drive, i will ask my landing instructor, what he had seen. may be at last i came in too slow and the old costruction stalled suddenly. fact, it came down suddenly into the ground and i hit the right upright with my right elbow and although it had a rubber edge, i broke it ... .

sure, i made mistakes, but on the other side, if i ever try again next year, it would definitly be a more modern costruction, just like the icaro rx 2, which one other of us flew - it looked very beginner friendly ... . mine seemed not to be good at higher speed - extreme sink - and also at lower speed - less control then. now i am, sure: there were great developments in the last ca 10 years on hg, just look at your brandnew ww falcon 4.

johannes
User avatar
By Skidis50
#294815
Johannes,
I"ve been casually tuning into to this thread since it began and was always sceptical that you my be a want to b. Injury aside as unfortunate as it is you are now one of us and are amongst peers(friends). We are not all naturals, many of us have been injured and lost in the learning process and at the most advanced levels.I sincerely hope that the decision you have to make with regard to your flying future is the right one for you and your recovery period may be short and sucessfull. I wish you well and hope to to see better news from you in the future.
User avatar
By over50
#308408
I wish - maybe a bit late - a good 2013 for all of us, flying or not flying hg!

My recovery (broken elbow/ "olecranon" fixed with metal) was accompanied by many good wishes - thank you for all of yours! I let operated out the nails exactly three moth after they were put in - now, about five weeks after, I can already stretch my right arm at about 170 (of 180) degrees; it seems, I had good luck - I coud fly hg again, if I wanted: this year. But it's a bit different!

I am one more year older then (54, still 72 kg) and I/ my bones remember, what could happen ... .

This time I would take a own glider, and I would - again - try, to get the best one; my choice on first is the ICARO RX 2 , 16 - They have 40 years Icaro this year, 10 years relax/rx 2.... and a new cahmpion: Manfred Ruhmer, owner of I.. The dealer is nearby and it is DHV 1 proved.

Interesting would be the Moyes Malibu 166 and the WW Falcon 4 for me too, but much more expensive/complicated to get :x .

In 2012 in germany, as the DHV-report told, there were new A-licenses: about 1700 PG, and HG: ? 78!!! - only. Very sad! Is there any future for HG here, scools, dealers, developers ... ??? - How was it in your countrys last year?

I would have to order my own hg in about tho weeks, if I try again this spring/summer ...

The "Hg for all purporses to hold on even later" - to my injured experience/age may be: a single surface in best condition.

over 50/Johannes
User avatar
By over50
#308512
A question to the elder of our pilots here:
Has anyone held his single surface glider as the one and only through the years, whithout owning a double surface, a postless, a rigid ... ?

Wouldn't it be good to our sport to simplyfy it: 10 kg less effort to carry, 10 minutes less to assemble, 10 km/h less speed to come in... ?

Johannes
User avatar
By jj colorado
#308518
While you may not find many people who have only had one glider, you will find many who have bought a single surface as their second wing.

My U2 is a great wing and if it is windy or I plan to go long XC I will generally fly that. But after having my U2 for a couple years I bought a Falcon 3 which I enjoy flying just as much. If it is a light wind day, or I just plan to fly locally, it is nice to have a wing that is lighter to carry, sets up fast, and is slightly easier to get into tight LZs. It is fun to fly.

You'll notice that even an accomplished HG like Davis Straub will often fly a Falcon in part as he likes the challenge of setting XC records with a single surface wing.

Last Spring I went flying with a few friends who all had double surface wings, and they were all amazed at how well I was keeping up with them flying my Falcon 3. Two of them (in their 40s) have since bought Falcons as second wings.

Note that it is also easier to feel and respond to thermals in a single surface wing. So for days with light lift, they are easier to fly, but you will notice that turbulence more (turbulence == lift). The extra wind penetration and weight of a double surface wing makes them slice through air better, which makes them more comfortable on rowdy air days, but that comfort comes at the cost of sensitivity to little thermal bubbles. Also, a single suface is easier to fly in an area that has paraglider traffic as the speed differential is not large. If I fly my U2 with many PGs I need to weave in and around them which is stressful.

So if you invest in a good single surface wing to start you may easily have it as long as you fly.
User avatar
By AirNut
#308575
over50 wrote:A question to the elder of our pilots here:
Has anyone held his single surface glider as the one and only through the years, whithout owning a double surface, a postless, a rigid ... ?

Wouldn't it be good to our sport to simplyfy it: 10 kg less effort to carry, 10 minutes less to assemble, 10 km/h less speed to come in... ?

Johannes
On the single surface question, try not be pushed by peer pressure (or any other kind) into thinking that you need to "upgrade" from a SS (even the word "upgrade" implies that SS is inferior to DS).

I'm 62 and a 62 kg weakling. I started flying in '76 and progressed steadily through all of the current glider designs, including DS. I gave up in '89 but recently came back after a 22 year break.

I've bought a SS glider (Moyes Malibu) and when it wears out, I plan to buy another one (...and another etc until I'm too old to fly). I have no urge to "upgrade". This is because the SS exactly suits what I want to get out of flying (easy handling, no-brainer landings, light weight, just happily boat around the sky). I also can't put huge amounts of time into flying , so staying current is less of a problem with a less-demanding glider (i.e. SS). And it also suits what I can put into flying, both mentally and physically. At my age I can't afford to hurt myself (old bones heal a lot slower than young bones, as you've probably discovered). So I want a glider that's easy to fly but is still rewarding. The SS fits the bill perfectly.

So the bottom line of all this is that in any activity in which you're risking your life (and don't kid yourself that in HG you're not), self-knowledge is the key. Look inside yourself and work out i) what it is that you want to get out of flying, ii) what it is that you're prepared to put in, and iii) how much risk you're prepared to take on board. It's the old risk/reward equation. Answering those three things (honestly) will tell you what type of glider you should be flying, now and in the future. In my case, the answer came out as single-surface, so I'm perfectly happy to stick with that.

And I don't feel even the slightest urge to "upgrade"!
User avatar
By over50
#312169
Today I made my final decision:

I ordered for my new flying attempts in May this year a brandnew ICARO RX 2, size m (15,95 qm), colours blue (standard version, as often seen: dark blue/white/medium blue).

It should be here at the end of april.
My (broken) elbow has recovered very well.

Whether this will become my first and last hangglider - future will show. I am very happy at the moment, because I could finally decide this.

Johannes
User avatar
By Dontsink
#312183
over50 wrote:Today I made my final decision:

I ordered for my new flying attempts in May this year a brandnew ICARO RX 2, size m (15,95 qm), colours blue (standard version, as often seen: dark blue/white/medium blue).

It should be here at the end of april.
My (broken) elbow has recovered very well.

Whether this will become my first and last hangglider - future will show. I am very happy at the moment, because I could finally decide this.

Johannes
Happy you are not giving up.
People Who Know say that is one of the sweetest,best handling SS gliders (Jim Rooney).
Post pics when you get it!.
User avatar
By Bobfly
#312189
Johannes, I'm very happy that your recovery has gone so well. I'm 55 and injuries at our age are much more serious and don't heal as fast or as completely like when we were younger. I know you will be delighted with your new wing. Good luck in your training and please post some pics of your new best friend when she arrives. I fly a Freedom and although I see myself eventually getting a double surface wing, my Freedom will always be my favorite and will have a place in my hanger for a very long time.
User avatar
By over50
#314661
Btw.: A little modification of my colour-order:

After I had seen a new youtube film of the Italian hanggliding school "bernardi"(youtubevideo "scuola di deltaplano (5))" I had successsfully changed my colour order.
Seen on this video are the brandnew Icaro RX 2 "dark colours" (two of nine possibilities). And in reality some look better than on the colour scheme of the Icaro hp. Suddfenly I liked the "dk 9" ("dark" 9). It looks a bit like a big black and coloured bird. Now I get this one, although I normally dislike the general "black-trend", everywhere seen today. It is for me like the austrian painter/artist Friedensreich Hundertwasser called "dunkelbunt" - what sounds in german better than anyway translated: dark, very deep colours and not only black.

Waiting to see it with my own eyes:

Johannes
User avatar
By over50
#340342
With my Icaro RX 2 16 I could make 27 height flights this year.
But the greatest was my examination: at the fourth of september I made my hang gliding examn ("A-Schein") at hochplatte/chiemgauer alps, and I didn't fail - now I am legal pilot and 2014 I hope to discover the next mountains nearby.

My new hangglider was very tolerant to some landing mistakes. But I had no experience with any termals yet. Maybe next year I have to buy a vario; the most simple Bräuninger sonic could help to recognice thermals better and needs not so much concentration, I still need for simple flying... Or I purchase the Bräuninger iq basic gps for the first one? - there is time enough for a decision, but:

the glider I will keep, it is fine, light, pretty and: it's mine (No, I got no pictures of it)!

Johannes
User avatar
By drachenjoe
#340361
Hi Johannes,

forget that Sonic... for the same cost, you can get a second-hand "real" vario..

Altitude and climb rate are a "must-have" in alpine hanggliding....

GPS can be a simple one, which you can keep as a backup in future..

See you at cloudbase,

Joe
#341394
over50 wrote: For my future: I am not(!) trying to fly ATOS one day (as it seems most dream of here),
I am thrilled to learn that so many European pilots aspire to fly rigid wings! For some inexplicable reason pilots in the US stubbornly insist on staying on flex wing gliders instead of progressing to the ultimate flying machines. It would be much like pilots of the 1980's continuing to fly standard rogallos long after the Comet was introduced!

Typical of most new pilots, right now you think you want to just float around the sky like a butterfly. It is only after you gain much experience you will discover that the real freedom and sensation of flight comes from traveling long distances through the air.

Enjoy!
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