Mavi Gogun wrote:I heard it from a guy who heard it from a guy" is the definition of a rumor. Disseminating such is the definition of a rumor monger.
So if a close friend of mine knows Manfred personally and have spent several days with him in his workshop - then comes back to tell me in-depth details of Manfred's point of view - that's "only a rumour"?
The statements are twice removed from the source. It leaves no way for the reader to discern the noise/slant/agenda/inaccuracy introduced by you or your friend; it discounts the contribution of tone and context for accurately conveying meaning; it provides no insight as to what Manfred's concern was when speaking to your friend. It means that when you speak with what seams like defensive certainty and discount what should be obvious concerns for any reader attempting to discern truth, that your voice becomes highly suspect.
Mavi Gogun wrote:I've never met Trampenau, don't own one of his gliders."
Then what qualifies you to know anything about what actually happened
I've made no claims- only observations of what is plain in the contract.
Mavi Gogun wrote:The vast majority of your posts to this forum relate directly to Seedwings Europe. Your bias is clear.
The same can be said about you with regards to Seedwings Inc.
No, it can not: of my 400 or so posts to this venue, only a tiny fraction speak to this issue- where as the majority of yours are on this single topic, or include Seedwings Europe. If you refuse to adopt even a modicum of semantic precision, then this issue will remain cast as dueling monologues, with zero resolution.
astronaut wrote:I have even spoken to former employees of Mr. Trampenau who off the record tells me that there IS two sides to this story and that the Bangheri brothers aren't the bad guys.
There's a handful of pilots in the US who simply won't accept that there may be two sides to the story.
I haven't heard a second side to this story from you: I have heard only one side presented with certainty. This, again, gives strong cause to suspect bias. Do you actually believe that there are two sides that are equally valid? They seem to be in direct conflict. Your statement might more accurately be restated, "there are pilots who won't simplistically accept that there is only one side."
astronaut wrote:Manfred also stated that The success of Seedwings Europe caused production, development ect. between the two companies to develop well beyond what was written in the contract.
That would be the crux.
astronaut wrote:Later the despute was caused by things NOT written in the contract. You could say that the contact was indeed extended by a "genteman's agreement" and then later Bob pulled out, only referred to the written contract and forgot the gentleman part.
Seems to me the very reason for the contract was this eventuality- it defined terms under which the extension of rights could be revoked- unless amended by a subsequent contract. Why would they forgo amending the contract at a later juncture? One could speculate- but let's not: that way leads nowhere fast.
A couple of over reaching conclusions offered by the Astronaut without support: Trampenau is the bad guy, and not a gentleman. I've read some of Trampenau's position, but nothing directly from those at Seedwings Europe, so couldn't make those characterizations myself.
Step back for a moment, Astronaut, and consider how it looks from outside: one party claims contract breach, and theft, and has spoken on the topic, offered some substance- the other can't be bothered. Were the situation reversed - say, the Ukrainian firm Aeros entering into a production partnership with a US company, things souring, then protested as the US company continued to use the Aeros brand in violation of a provided contract- we would be equally skeptical, critical. "I talked to a guy, and he assures me they were right to do so" wouldn't be persuasive- and it's not here. The argument falls short of allaying concerns of injustice, and doesn't allow for a purchase decision with a clear conscious. As a practical consideration, that's what we're talking to resolve. I'm in a position where such a glider would be an option- but first I would need satisfaction on this issue to consider it. That is my interest - not partisan punditry.